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  #121  
Old 03-20-2012, 12:02 AM
rarson rarson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post
the win9x/2k start menu.
I don't get it. What is the Windows 7 start menu missing exactly?
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  #122  
Old 04-09-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarson View Post
I don't get it. What is the Windows 7 start menu missing exactly?
I think he means that boring, fugly old block of **** that is the NT kernal's start menu. God knows why, the W7 one is much better.
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  #123  
Old 04-13-2012, 06:04 AM
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Yes, and that fugly NT (actually Windows95, or more accurately Xerox-style) menu UI is NATIVELY FULLY CUSTOMIZABLE.
WinXp/7/8 default start menu is not, same for Office2003 vs. RibbonOffice.

For anyone used to extensively customize the UI => align with his personal thought patterns - Win7 removal of a customizable Start menu is an unacceptable regression.
(Third party hacks are not a solution for various policy/security reasons.)

Computer is here to serve ME, not the other way around.
I explicitly refuse to align my thinking with some random manipulating psychologist at Microsoft/Ubuntu/RedHat/etc.

Same goes for any "smart" menu systems be it Shell, Unity or Metro for that matter.

On the Metro note - forcing keyboard/mouse user to FULLY switch (visual) context (and thus blink the screen) to open basically any app is a huge throw back to the DOS era of "multitasking".
Great for toys though.


In general, lets be clear on one thing - removal of the "classic" UI elements from Windows and Office were NOT technical decisions (unlike in case of Shell/Unity). These are a pure result of strategic marketing.
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Last edited by minosi; 04-13-2012 at 06:09 AM. Reason: typo correction
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  #124  
Old 04-18-2012, 12:08 PM
rarson rarson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minosi View Post
Yes, and that fugly NT (actually Windows95, or more accurately Xerox-style) menu UI is NATIVELY FULLY CUSTOMIZABLE.
WinXp/7/8 default start menu is not, same for Office2003 vs. RibbonOffice.
What are you talking about? All of those versions of Windows have Start menus that are customizable.

Quote:
For anyone used to extensively customize the UI => align with his personal thought patterns - Win7 removal of a customizable Start menu is an unacceptable regression.
Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. Right-click -> Properties -> Customize. What else do you need?

On top of that, Windows 7 actually has a usable search and allows me to open up any program in a second by simply typing its name in.

Quote:
Computer is here to serve ME, not the other way around.
I explicitly refuse to align my thinking with some random manipulating psychologist at Microsoft/Ubuntu/RedHat/etc.
In other words, you can't be bothered to figure out how to use something you're not immediately familiar with.

Quote:
On the Metro note - forcing keyboard/mouse user to FULLY switch (visual) context (and thus blink the screen) to open basically any app is a huge throw back to the DOS era of "multitasking".
It doesn't force anything, and if you had bothered to try it, you'd know that. The old keyboard shortcuts still work. That awesome Windows 7 search? Still there. I think you should keep your ill-informed opinions to yourself, or maybe actually try the software before slamming it.

Quote:
In general, lets be clear on one thing - removal of the "classic" UI elements from Windows and Office were NOT technical decisions (unlike in case of Shell/Unity). These are a pure result of strategic marketing.
As if streamlining the UI for average user isn't a technical decision? I'm not a huge fan of EVERY change MS has ever made (and some of them I really hate), but I don't slam EVERYTHING that isn't NT just because of the way it looks, and I certainly don't slam anything before I try it (which you obviously do). I also recognize that there are different approaches to designing UIs for consumers vs the server environment.
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  #125  
Old 04-20-2012, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarson View Post
What are you talking about? All of those versions of Windows have Start menus that are customizable.

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. Right-click -> Properties -> Customize. What else do you need?

On top of that, Windows 7 actually has a usable search and allows me to open up any program in a second by simply typing its name in.

In other words, you can't be bothered to figure out how to use something you're not immediately familiar with.

It doesn't force anything, and if you had bothered to try it, you'd know that. The old keyboard shortcuts still work. That awesome Windows 7 search? Still there. I think you should keep your ill-informed opinions to yourself, or maybe actually try the software before slamming it.

As if streamlining the UI for average user isn't a technical decision? I'm not a huge fan of EVERY change MS has ever made (and some of them I really hate), but I don't slam EVERYTHING that isn't NT just because of the way it looks, and I certainly don't slam anything before I try it (which you obviously do). I also recognize that there are different approaches to designing UIs for consumers vs the server environment.
You beat me to it
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  #126  
Old 05-03-2012, 11:16 AM
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There are also different approaches to designing a UI for different platforms and input methods. I can see Metro for phones and tablets but it makes no sense for a business desktop with mouse and KB.

Windows start menu has settings options but I'd not say truly customisable in the same way as most Linux WM's are.
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  #127  
Old 05-03-2012, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioVoodoo View Post
There are also different approaches to designing a UI for different platforms and input methods. I can see Metro for phones and tablets but it makes no sense for a business desktop with mouse and KB.

Windows start menu has settings options but I'd not say truly customisable in the same way as most Linux WM's are.
I can confidently say it works with mouse and keyboard.
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  #128  
Old 05-04-2012, 04:45 PM
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Of course it works, no one says it doesn't, the user experience, however, is the milestone. It's not simply ugly, it leaves the impression that the Windows 95 times are back. One question- is it possible to customise those stupid boxes, I mean to make them transparent, to change their shape, to remove that annoying green background?
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  #129  
Old 05-04-2012, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiD View Post
Of course it works, no one says it doesn't, the user experience, however, is the milestone. It's not simply ugly, it leaves the impression that the Windows 95 times are back. One question- is it possible to customise those stupid boxes, I mean to make them transparent, to change their shape, to remove that annoying green background?
You can't make them transparent, but the background can be changed to whatever colour you want and it has a load of patterns you can choose from. You can turn live tiles on and off, resize the tiles, put them in any order and in any group you want. It's a better integration of widgets than anything else I have seen and is actually useful. At a glace I can know everything I want to know so I don't have to use my precious time to go look it all up.

Explain how it returns to Windows 95 please.
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  #130  
Old 05-04-2012, 05:27 PM
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This is how I have laid my Start screen out on my laptop:-

http://i.imgur.com/px6S1.png

Most of the tiles on there are live tiles and tell me the information I want, I have more to the right of that that are for different things like work and games etc. I find it infinitely better than the start menu personally and I like the look of it.
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