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  #451  
Old 09-14-2010, 10:09 AM
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I'm kind of sure, that Llano is going to be a success. People that buy Phenom's to day, will probably buy some kind of Bulldozer Big Bang (to multy cores) processor anyway, while everyone else, will be more than happy with a 3GHz 65 watt Llano. I never bought myself a Phenom, ofcause tempted but not fallen . The Athlon II is a much more efficient design and that's what we see in Llano, no L3 cash.
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  #452  
Old 09-14-2010, 10:24 AM
DavidC1 DavidC1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
400 sp's comes in at 30w, albeit with lower clocks again but even if you say 40w that's 40nm, no SOI, no HKMG. That could easily be 15w we're talking about on GF's 32nm.....

I'm not saying it's true, but some stuff isn't adding up here. Why have we seen die shots of the cpu but not the gpu? There's been a lot of secrecy there.
Think you are overestimating a tad. If you compare it to the HD48xx parts that use similar config then its possible to analyze the Llano die pic.

~400 still stands
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  #453  
Old 09-14-2010, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
Also looking at TDP values, with HKMG on top, it's clear a quad Athlon and 400 sp's is going to have a small TDP.
What you are also missing is there's a lot of power management work done for Llano apart from the process node at least on the CPU core part. But probably most of that saving is going to CPU or at least I hope so.

I think for a start 400sp should be more than good for mainstream. Lets not forget its probably going to have a higher clock than a 40nm bulk graphics core and there is also issue of bandwidth.

As for the die shot not matching, can't read them so I can't worry about them

Quote:
'm kind of sure, that Llano is going to be a success. People that buy Phenom's to day, will probably buy some kind of Bulldozer Big Bang (to multy cores) processor anyway, while everyone else, will be more than happy with a 3GHz 65 watt Llano. I never bought myself a Phenom, ofcause tempted but not fallen . The Athlon II is a much more efficient design and that's what we see in Llano, no L3 cash.
Oppsee .. I actually totally forgot that Llano had no L3 even if it increase L2. Any one care to suggest if that should make it loose performance to PhII if all else is the same? 1Mb L2 is huge deal though, is there any processor with that much L2 out there? Is there a chance that this might actually make it better than PhII?
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  #454  
Old 09-14-2010, 11:57 AM
Hans de Vries Hans de Vries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post


Maybe add 12-15mm2 for that.


You can sorta see that 400 sp's (assuming a 50% shrink that is), is not going to get this cpu near the 225mm2 suggested.

Maybe it's somewhere in-between, say 640?

Also looking at TDP values, with HKMG on top, it's clear a quad Athlon and 400 sp's is going to have a small TDP.

example - http://www.amd.com/us/products/noteb...870-specs.aspx

50 watts for the mobility 5870, which is slightly slower that the desktop 5770 (both have 800 sp's). If you clock it up to even 65 watts, 32nm and HKMG should easily knock that down a lot.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/noteb...770-specs.aspx

400 sp's comes in at 30w, albeit with lower clocks again but even if you say 40w that's 40nm, no SOI, no HKMG. That could easily be 15w we're talking about on GF's 32nm.....

I'm not saying it's true, but some stuff isn't adding up here. Why have we seen die shots of the cpu but not the gpu? There's been a lot of secrecy there.

The suggestion of a "Redwood class" GPU is based on the transistor
count given by AMD for Llano (sometimes ~1 billion, sometimes >1 billion)

CPU: 440 million transistors (4 cores each 110 million incl L2)
GPU: 627 million transistors (For the 400 SPU Redwood GPU)
=============================================
sum:1067 million transistors for LLano


Regards, Hans
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  #455  
Old 09-14-2010, 12:38 PM
Amiga500 Amiga500 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans de Vries View Post
The suggestion of a "Redwood class" GPU is based on the transistor
count given by AMD for Llano (sometimes ~1 billion, sometimes >1 billion)

CPU: 440 million transistors (4 cores each 110 million incl L2)
GPU: 627 million transistors (For the 400 SPU Redwood GPU)
=============================================
sum:1067 million transistors for LLano


Regards, Hans
Hans - any idea how many of those transistors be performing functions that are present on both the GPU and CPU?

(i.e. how many transistors will be dropped off a proper fusion design? - no need to duplicate them is there?)
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  #456  
Old 09-14-2010, 01:16 PM
James James is offline
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Hmm I guess it's probably only 400, or 480 then. Aside from the obvious bandwidth issue by adding yet more SP's the gpu part probably isn't gonna shrink 50%. That would be the most reasonable way to look at it.

I do think this could scale down to a pretty low TDP part though because 400/480 shaders on GF's 32nm isn't going to put a big dent into a TDP budget. It just makes you wonder how utterly spectacular bobcat will be on the same process.
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  #457  
Old 09-14-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRoland View Post
I think they have a new Atom planned for 2012? Might fit the bill.
Intel planned the new Atom before any news of Bobcat performance became public. Intel will have aimed low, just as they always do with Atom.

Intel has deliberately left a gaping hole in the mobile processor market between processors that are more powerful than any average user needs and Atoms. Only the expensive CULV series come close to filling that hole.

AMD never had anything to fit into that space before now.

It is unlikely Intel's Atom roadmap has anything suitable for rivaling Bobcat. By design.
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  #458  
Old 09-14-2010, 01:40 PM
integrated integrated is offline
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Question

What are the chances of Llano containing an "Optimus-like" switching system?

The advanced clock gating could keep 90% of the GPU stone-cold until the user does something beyond running Aero!

40sp "integrated graphics" with ~360sp more waiting for gaming/codec acceleration!!!

Could AMD be so brilliant?


------

YAY!!!!! I'm not Itanic anymore!!!

Also; there is no reason the "rest" of the GPU couldn't come online with finer grain than 10%-100%

Last edited by integrated; 09-14-2010 at 01:41 PM. Reason: gloating
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  #459  
Old 09-14-2010, 02:02 PM
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265586888 265586888 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by integrated View Post
What are the chances of Llano containing an "Optimus-like" switching system?

The advanced clock gating could keep 90% of the GPU stone-cold until the user does something beyond running Aero!

40sp "integrated graphics" with ~360sp more waiting for gaming/codec acceleration!!!

Could AMD be so brilliant?


------

YAY!!!!! I'm not Itanic anymore!!!

Also; there is no reason the "rest" of the GPU couldn't come online with finer grain than 10%-100%
I think it's more like PowerPlay+......

P.S. Congratulations on the 256th post.
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  #460  
Old 09-14-2010, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
If intel sells the N550 for $80 or so, $50 is starting to look very reasonable.
Digitimes has reported that HP paid $55 for theirs. Can't provide the link as I'm not a subscriber and after a few days, all articles become subscriber only.
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