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  #561  
Old 09-16-2010, 07:24 AM
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Sure it just sips watts, but when your people are less productive then that's the real waste. Sure the new ones will do video faster, gee, Notes, Dreamweaver, Win 7 Premium and Lightroom would shine there! [/sarcasm]
This is what will actually be interesting. I think it is TechReport that does tests of overall efficiency by measuring the total energy required to complete a task, which should be especially enlightening when comparing Atom and Bobcat.
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  #562  
Old 09-16-2010, 08:14 AM
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Amazingly enough, Atom looks like it's made it's own market. Too bad that market is "too powersucking for smartphones 2011 and not powerful enough for netbooks 2011".

Reading that pc perspective link, and a few others, it occurs to me that a lot of them have mentioned the same thing - that Zacate won't be up against current i5's, but SB. Aside from the fact that there is no guarantee of this, as the market for seriously overpriced and underperforming 18w chips is about to die horribly - At best you'd expect to see one 5-6 months after Zacate's release.

I wonder if they'll mention that SB won't be up against Thuban or Phenom in 2011, but BD and Llano.
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  #563  
Old 09-16-2010, 08:27 AM
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At this point in time they're actually flirting with VIA/Centaur, but that may be too late...

Agreed. It would be interesting to see 3-way competition in this field. Via may not be able to compete against high end Intel chips but they do know a thing or two about lower wattage.
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  #564  
Old 09-16-2010, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by James View Post
Reading that pc perspective link, and a few others, it occurs to me that a lot of them have mentioned the same thing - that Zacate won't be up against current i5's, but SB. Aside from the fact that there is no guarantee of this, as the market for seriously overpriced and underperforming 18w chips is about to die horribly - At best you'd expect to see one 5-6 months after Zacate's release.
Zacate will be up against i3s and low end i5s imo. There was a single sentence from Anand's SB architecture article that leads me to believe this, "The value segments won’t see Sandy Bridge until 2012." Any SB part in 2011 won't be near Zacate in price.

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I wonder if they'll mention that SB won't be up against Thuban or Phenom in 2011, but BD and Llano.
For the most part SB will be up against Phenoms in 2011, Llano in Q3 and BD in "late late 2011"
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  #565  
Old 09-16-2010, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Natfly View Post
Zacate will be up against i3s and low end i5s imo. There was a single sentence from Anand's SB architecture article that leads me to believe this, "The value segments won’t see Sandy Bridge until 2012." Any SB part in 2011 won't be near Zacate in price.



For the most part SB will be up against Phenoms in 2011, Llano in Q3 and BD in "late late 2011"
good post. So Intel's process advantage is not top to bottom - they still have to run a lot of their parts on 45nm, the more so that SB is a bigger die than past generations due to the integration of the IGP. So while AMD is 40/45 right now, Intel is on 32/45 - not so much of an advantage.

Begs the question, what would happen if Intel moved everything to the next generation process within a year? WAG, that would increase capex, shorten the depreciation lifecycle and increase annual depreciation, thus increasing the cost per wafer probably to levels higher than AMD will be paying to TSMC and GF. There's no more chipset and value segment free lunch for Intel.
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  #566  
Old 09-16-2010, 11:49 AM
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So while AMD is 40/45 right now, Intel is on 32/45 - not so much of an advantage.
Yeah, except like 45/40 vs. 32/45. Intel basically has their high end on 32nm, while AMD will start on 40nm with low end and then on 32nm with mainstream (Llano).
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  #567  
Old 09-16-2010, 12:42 PM
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Yeah, except like 45/40 vs. 32/45. Intel basically has their high end on 32nm, while AMD will start on 40nm with low end and then on 32nm with mainstream (Llano).
The most recent slide says Llano will be "aimed at the higher end of the client market".

I think we're looking at a repositioning of sorts. Bobcat was supposed to be netbook/entry notebook but now it's scaling up to desktop, Llano was supposed to be mainstream notebook now it's "higher end client" and I'm sure I saw an old slide claiming BD was going to be "mainstream client" a while back, but the last one was targeted at "enthusiast".
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  #568  
Old 09-16-2010, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by James View Post
I think we're looking at a repositioning of sorts.
Sure. There are several high and low ends depending on whether you consider price, performance or power. There are also differences between mobile and desktop markets.

My thoughts are that Bobcat will be low end - mainstream on mobile, while Llano will scale up to high end. On the desktop Bobcat will surely be low end (nettops, maybe HTPC), while Llano may be mostly mainstream. High end will probably stay with Deneb/Thuban until BD.
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  #569  
Old 09-16-2010, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natfly View Post
Zacate will be up against i3s and low end i5s imo. There was a single sentence from Anand's SB architecture article that leads me to believe this, "The value segments won’t see Sandy Bridge until 2012."
That single sentence appears to be an error. As you can see later in the very same article, where the roadmap shows "value" as Sandy Bridge in Q3 2011.

That's the "Celeron" line, which goes SB in Q3. This is where you might see a single-core SB fight with Zacate.

The "Pentium" line, a little stronger, goes SB in Q2.
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  #570  
Old 09-16-2010, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by chipper View Post
That single sentence appears to be an error. As you can see later in the very same article, where the roadmap shows "value" as Sandy Bridge in Q3 2011.
Yeah, the roadmap is from their preview article a few weeks back, which introduces it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anand
What we have below is the Intel roadmap, with Sandy Bridge included, for Q3 2010 through Q3 2011. The further out you go in a roadmap the lower your accuracy becomes, so I wouldn’t worry too much about us not seeing LGA-2011 on there yet.
It seems to be for desktop. Anyone seen one for mobile?
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