Early AMD Llano and Ontario performance numbers tip up
From a rather unlikely source
by Lars-Göran Nilsson
July 29, 2010
WE'RE STILL AT least a couple of months away from AMD's Ontario announcement and even longer from Llano, but some very early performance figures have tipped up online courtesy of, well, distributed computing. To be more precise details of various distributed computing apps being tested on AMD Llano and Ontario systems have appeared on BOINC or the Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing if you prefer.
BOINC is a non-commercial middleware for various distributed computing programs such as SETI@home and several other less famous ones. The site is listing details of AMD engineering sample CPUs which are listed as AMD64 family 18, model 0 stepping 0 and AMD64 family 20, model 0 stepping 0 which is meant to be AMD’s upcoming Llano and Ontario APUs.
The Llano APU is listed as having three CPU’s, although this would be cores rather than actual CPU’s and the Ontario is a dual core. The Llano system is kitted out with 8GB of RAM, but we’re fairly certain the 1MB of cache listing is somewhat off target. The Ontario system has 2GB of RAM, but 230MB of that seems to be taken up by the GPU. Again the cache listing is odd, at 448KB. It’s possible that the cache is per core rather than for the entire CPU, as that makes sense judging by other CPU listings on BOINC and L3 cache doesn’t appear to be taken into account.
It’s hard to draw any real conclusions from the numbers, as the clock speeds for the two CPUs aren’t listed. Without knowing that it’s hard to compare the processors to current products in the market, but the Ontario is looking a lot more “ready” than the Llano. The only numbers on offer is measured floating point and integer speeds in million ops/sec, The Ontario comes out with 1,351 million ops/sec for floating point and 3,047 million ops/sec for integer performance running Windows Server 2008 of all things.
We also managed to dig out some numbers for the same CPU running an unspecified version of Linux with kernel 2.6.31.5 and here the floating point speed is slightly lower at 1,330 million ops/sec, but the integer performance went up slightly to 3,120 million ops/sec. This compares quite favourably to Intel’s dual core Atom 330 which only manages 871 million ops/sec for floating point and 2,249 million ops/sec for integer.
The triple-core Llano processor on the other hand doesn’t seem to be performing nearly as well as it should as it has a floating point performance of a mere 1,196 million ops/sec and an integer performance of 3,711 million ops/sec. It’s worth taking into account that this is most likely a very early sample and isn’t running anywhere near full speed. It’s no point comparing it to anything either, as the numbers aren’t going to impress anyone at this stage.
If nothing else, this does show that AMD has working silicon of both the Ontario and Llano processors, although as mentioned, Ontario seems to be a lot closer to a finished product at this stage than Llano. Ontario should compare favourable to Intel’s CULV mobile processors, although we doubt Ontario will beat Intel’s ultra low power Core iSomethingmeaningless processors on anything but price, but sometimes that’s enough to be a winner.S|A
File under Microprocessors and Mobile
S|A
24 Comments
anno July 29, 2010, 3:16 p.m.
"although we doubt Ontario will beat Intel’s ultra low power Core iSomethingmeaningless processors on anything but price, but sometimes that’s enough to be a winner"
To me it seems rather obvious it can - isn't it always about how much you can get for your money? Money should probably be the primary benchmark, most of the time that's the first thing on people's minds when they plan to make a purchase.
No Tellin July 29, 2010, 3:16 p.m.
AMD appears to have 4 of these systems. 2 Ontario and 2 Llano. One each for Windows and Linux.
The link to the one you're missing is http://en.allprojectstats.com/show.ph...
This one is Llano running Linux {same version}.
The FP and Int ops are:
Measured floating point speed 1,202 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 4,653 million ops/sec
Max July 29, 2010, 5:01 p.m.
Ontario should be a nice alternative to the lame Atom chips. LLano, on the other hand, seems like an unnecessary product - old CPU core plus graphics, how is that better than old CPU + integrated graphics chipset?
Max July 29, 2010, 5:09 p.m.
By the way, Ontario's TDP will range from 5W (lowest power single core) to 20W (full power 2 core). Not exactly the "1W - 10W" we were promised but oh well...
ihosama July 29, 2010, 5:13 p.m.
"..although we doubt Ontario will beat Intel’s ultra low power Core iSomethingmeaningless processors on anything but price, but sometimes that’s enough to be a winner"
I beg to disagree.
AMD would have to screw up pretty thoroughly to under-perform on the GPU side of things.
ihosama July 29, 2010, 5:18 p.m.
Max:
I would venture a guess the power use change has more to do with market positioning than anything.
AFAIR original idea was for Bobcat on AMD SOI no el-cheapo TSMC bulk.
Wise choice if you ask me.
Phone/mid market is a bit too crowded right now with ARM on the run.
At the same time Intel is purposefully ignoring the netbook/small-notebook market for Atom thus essentially giving up the market for AMD to take over.
jimbo July 29, 2010, 5:28 p.m.
Actually "Max", the bobcat core was targeted at 1-10w. Get your facts straight.
Rau July 29, 2010, 6:20 p.m.
It doesn't matter is AMD performs BETTER OR WORSE. When the media blitz about Intel's monopolistic behavior fades out, Intel will resume BRIBING and coercing computer manufacturers to drop AMD processors.
When it comes to Intel, cheating is more important than innovation.
Intel is EVIL INSIDE.
Mike July 29, 2010, 6:37 p.m.
jimbo, It was my understanding that "Ontario" is "Bobcat", but you are correct it was targeted at 1-10w per core, and if i'm reading it right, Ontario is a dual core part plus intergrated GPU.
Church-member July 29, 2010, 11:34 p.m.
"..although we doubt Ontario will beat Intel’s ultra low power Core iSomethingmeaningless processors on anything but price, but sometimes that’s enough to be a winner"
I also beg to disagree. Ontario might not perform equally to a core iSomethingmeaningless, but power consumption should be lower than these intel processors.
asdf July 30, 2010, 3:40 a.m.
Mind that Ontario is a System-on-chip, i.e. it incorporates CPU, GPU and chipset. So if you compare it with other plattform, you can't count just the (albeit very low) TDP of a ULV-Core i-something, but have to add the other chips as well. And in that comparision, this Intel platform is certainly more power-hungry and also needs more space inside the device, so it will not be competing in the same market segment, that means performance comparisons are pointless.
The real competitor is Atom. It has roughly the same TDP (more or less depending which chipset is used). In terms of performance, Atom seems to be weaker; but it is also a good deal older, and it has secured a market that was nearly non-existent before Atom. Ontario's CPU performance may be better, but that is not always decisive. Graphics are quite certainly better, that might be more of worth. The really big advantage however might be the SoC concept, which saves a lot of space on the PCB and thus enables much smaller devices (and also cuts costs) like thin small webpads etc.
So AMD will fight an uphill battle, but with a sharp blade. Certainly interesting to watch what the OEMs will create with this new chip.
Llano on the other hand is probably a quite boring product, but it can become a cash-cow for AMD. It's easy to produce and since it cuts out one chip (it will just need the southbridge, no northbridge chip anymore), cost will come down for mainboard makers. Llano is a product for the masses of grey boxes in offices etc. that just need to be cheap.
Richard Cownie July 30, 2010, 8:46 a.m.
Ontario looks good - if it matches Atom systems on power, but the cpu goes 1.5x
faster and the GPU is good, then it should do very well.
"Llano on the other hand is probably a quite boring product, but it can become a cash-cow for AMD."
The cpu is boring, yes. What's interesting is that cheap Llano systems will have
roughly Radeon 5670-class 3D graphics. That's really a bombshell that destroys
half the discrete-GPU market. And it bolsters AMD's customary focus on system
price-performance: it can make a very cheap home desktop or laptop with
moderate gaming capability (and maybe good video-transcoding etc, as apps
get optimized for OpenCL), and SandyBridge systems will probably be more
expensive and will need a discrete GPU to match it.
If they can ship it in high enough volume quickly enough ...
fred July 30, 2010, 10:52 a.m.
"If nothing else, this does show that AMD has working silicon of both the Ontario and Llano processors,"
Erm, AMD announced this back in April, on the earnings call. :)
"Ontario seems to be a lot closer to a finished product at this stage than Llano."
Erm, yes, on the July earnings call, AMD announced 32nm process problems, and that 40nm Ontario would now launch first, with 32nm Llano delayed.
And shouldn't you credit dresdenboy's blog for this story, as mentioned in your own forums a month ago?
http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/sh...
jprovido July 30, 2010, 4:19 p.m.
wow! imagine what this could do to crappy netbooks which were previously dubbed as "almost useless" and "impossible to game at". imagine teeny weeny netbooks with almost athlon II x2 processing power and dx11 capable? innovation at it's finest!
Chris July 30, 2010, 9:19 p.m.
A netbook that lasts three hours per charge? Call 2007, I've got one of their POS Celeron M based paperweights to give back.
brad July 31, 2010, 6:42 a.m.
wonder why llano has been so tough to make. its an existing cpu and gpu going to a familiar market. ontario, is a new cpu and existing gpu, going at an unfamiliar market.
is it all just process? in that case, why wait a year for 32, just do it at 45?
Richard Cownie July 31, 2010, 6:56 a.m.
"old CPU core plus graphics, how is that better than old CPU + integrated graphics chipset?"
The chipset GPUs have 40 stream processors; the Llano GPU has 480 stream
processors IIRC. So it's much more capable. And there may be some extra
bank for the buck from being closer to the CPU and the L2/L3 cache as well.
Chris August 1, 2010, 3:24 a.m.
Can the L3 cache make up for the far narrower memory bandwidth?
Richard Cownie August 1, 2010, 4:51 a.m.
"Can the L3 cache make up for the far narrower memory bandwidth?"
It's going to be interesting to see the gaming benchmarks when these
systems come out. My guess is that AMD wouldn't have spent die
area on 480 SPU's unless they had simulations and experiments to
suggest it would give worthwhile performance gains. But we'll see ...
Stalker August 1, 2010, 4:57 a.m.
Gaming?... not to burst your bubble, but these chips are meant for something else. They even gave them a new name.
They might perform in games but not on the level of discrete graphics... not that it matters anyway. The chips are supposed to offer increased application processing through OpenCL and as such they will help in decoding video faster and at a great resolution, but the lack of own VRAM would make them slow in games in terms of texture filling and the ability to display large or HQ textures. Other than that it should work pretty good.
Then again, this would probably be the best integrated graphics of its class, better than Intel by far.
Richard Cownie August 1, 2010, 10:09 a.m.
"not to burst your bubble, but these chips are meant for something else"
Obviously they're not for enthusiasts wanting to run Crysis at full HD.
But my kids love playing games on the iPad - and Ontario should be a
much better CPU *and* much better GPU than that. The GPGPU/OpenCL
stuff is interesting for the future, but as a software developer myself
working on putting some parallelism into a big app, I say it's going to
take years for that to really spread across a wide range of apps.
Richard Cownie August 1, 2010, 4:01 p.m.
Checked the numbers, as far as I can tell Llano will have 2 channels of
DDR3-1600, giving about 25.6GB/sec of memory bandwidth. Radeon 5670
has 64GB/sec. So it's about 0.56x. Or putting it another way, roughly in
line with the high-end GPU cards from late 2007.
Wandrey August 2, 2010, 8:55 a.m.
@Richard Cownie
Llano is rumored to have 480 sp. Ontario probably has far less, 80 sp is the common guess, since it would be just like a Cedar. So gaming performance will suffer a lot for Ontario, but will still be far better than today's netbooks.
Richard Cownie August 2, 2010, 9:27 a.m.
"Ontario probably has far less, 80 sp is the common guess"
Thanks, I didn't know that figure. Still, that's 2x more than the 40 SPUs in
the current chipset IGPs - and it should clock faster as well, since it will
be in a better process than the chipset stuff, and may have a higher
power/heat budget as well.
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